Thursday, October 6, 2011

Ogre Kingdoms Ironblaster - Standing and Shooting

I highly Debated topic among Ogre Kingdoms players and other armies' players alike, but unfortunately, so many are just not reading the rules right. I tend to be the rules afficiado for alot of games played with friends, and at the LFGS. While I might get things wrong off the top of my head, of course I'm not perfect, I do tend to put a fair bit of faith in my interpretations of the rules :)

Unfortunately, fact is, Ironblasters can Stand and shoot, until Errata'd otherwise. Here's why:

the Sky Cannon says that it "Fires like a normal cannon, using the profile and special rules below", so first, by this we use the profile and special rules below (and no other SPECIAL rules, like say, slow to fire), of which 'slow to fire' as mentioned, is not one, so it can stand and shoot.

You'll also notice the Scraplauncher has the rule worded differently (for which there is a reason - so that it cannot stand and shoot) and says "The Scraplauncher IS a stone thrower, WITH the rules below"... Same writer, different wording - the intention is clear (RAI)

Now, the primary argument against has been that:

the sky-titan cannon must be a war machine weapon as it falls into the war machine part of the rule book.. further, the rulebook says "Unless specified, all war machines weapons have the move or fire special rule" Now, if you re-read from the start again, you'll notice that the rulebook SPECIFIES that you are using the Special rules that follow, in the IB section of the OK rulebook"

There's a grammatical error here (again which ill come back to) where all this confusion stems from, but more importantly, that particular sentence is under "Shooting with War Machines" note that does not say "shooting with War Machine weapons".. again Ill come back to the whole 'war machines weapons' thing. The IB is not a war machine, it is a chariot.. Likewise under the same section, I do not get a free pivot in the shooting phase, as listed under the same heading, like a war machine does, as I'm a chariot.. more importantly whilst I do have a "crew" I can't force you to only attack with 6 models (see, 'War Machines in close combat') and further, the weapon is not destroyed should I be forced to flee (see 'Movement' under 'War Machines') Furthermore again, I do not fail all characteristic tests (save T and Ld) as per 'Characteristic tests' under 'War Machines' Everyone can agree on these facts comfortably, but not Stand And Shoot.. why?

its the phrase "all War Machines Weapons" it doesn't quite make sense.. given this, We have to assume that the first possible definition listed below is true, and therefor allows IB to stand and shoot. I know alot of people don't like this, but the problem is you cannot prove otherwise while using the rules in full (i.e. I am NOT Shooting WITH a War Machine, hence that paragraph does not apply to my IB, simpel as that)

the first possible definition is that it should say "All of a War Machine's Weapons", the grammatically closest phrase that makes sense in the english language, to what has been put into the book, which allows stand and shoot (as this is a Chariot's Weapons)

The other possible definition is that it should say "All Weapons that would normally be mounted on or part of a War Machine" or "All Cannons, Fire Throwers, Stone Throwers, and Bolt Throwers".. The problem is this is too far from the existing sentence to be what was likely intended, it's not just 1 adjoining words and an apostraphe, it entirely restructures the sentence.. If this was what was intended, the BRB needs to be errata'd, not necessarily the OK rule book.

With this in mind, the Wording of the rules surrounding this indicate I can stand and shoot (RAW)

Some people have also likened this to the Hell Cannon, which cannot stand and shoot.. the difference is, simply, it has been errata'd, saying it specifically cannot Stand And Shoot, and further, can't move and fire. The IB can move and fire, we know thaat, and it is a chariot, not a monster like the HC. More importantly, no errata says that we cannot stand and shoot. Even further, the HC rules say it "fires as a stone thrower" rather than "LIKE a normal stone thrower, using the profile and special rules below". so unfortunately, cop grapeshot to the face :P

It satisfies both RAI and RAW.. there's really not much you can do to stop it (except score bad sports, which some TOs have encouraged - I guess I should do the same if any HE players take Teclis? or maybe just HE players? :P)

out!

-Albrek